By Phil RogersDaniel Hudson and David Holmberg for Edwin Jackson?
Sheesh.
After that trade was announced Friday, there were indications that it was a piece of something bigger, something more understandable, and hopefully more productive. If it was made to facilitate an Adam Dunn trade or somehow was to play into a Brett Myers/Lance Berkman package, wouldn't it have been better to make it part of a three- or four-team deal, not a stand-alone move?
Ken Williams had better be able to pull off whatever it is that's up his sleeve.
Hudson is too solid, too projectable as at worst a middle-of-the-rotation starter -- think Jered Weaver when he first arrived in Anaheim
-- to be traded for Jackson, who had been traded three times before. And
Holmberg, as a high-school player one of the best pitchers in Florida before
the Sox drafted him in 2009, is either another significant piece or was
a terrible draft pick.
According to sources, Williams was heavily engaged in discussions with the Astros on Berkman. He also had discussed Myers. But indications are that window may have passed, with Berkman heading to the Yankees, who until Friday had been conspicuous by their quiet.
Those close to the Washington Nationals say it still is not clear if general manager Mike Rizzo is going to trade Dunn or make a last-ditch effort to sign him to a contract extension. That bit of indecision could cause a Dunn trade to go right down to the deadline. But a Berkman-to-New York trade would indicate the Yankees couldn't get their own Dunn deal cleared. That leaves one less team in talks.
Dunn to the Sox for Jackson (and maybe a prospect) is alive. But if the deadline arrives and the Sox have only made the Jackson deal, Williams will not have valued Hudson highly enough.
According to sources, Williams was heavily engaged in discussions with the Astros on Berkman. He also had discussed Myers. But indications are that window may have passed, with Berkman heading to the Yankees, who until Friday had been conspicuous by their quiet.
Those close to the Washington Nationals say it still is not clear if general manager Mike Rizzo is going to trade Dunn or make a last-ditch effort to sign him to a contract extension. That bit of indecision could cause a Dunn trade to go right down to the deadline. But a Berkman-to-New York trade would indicate the Yankees couldn't get their own Dunn deal cleared. That leaves one less team in talks.
Dunn to the Sox for Jackson (and maybe a prospect) is alive. But if the deadline arrives and the Sox have only made the Jackson deal, Williams will not have valued Hudson highly enough.
"soxfaningeorgia on July 30, 2010 5:40 PM
That's one side, now the other:
Wells and Fogg for Ritchie
Swisher twice (both coming and going)
Ryan Sweeney
Chris Young
Gio Gonzales
Clayton Richard"
Wha-wha-what??
You mean worthless Kip Wells and worthless Josh Fogg.
You mean weak hitting Ryan Sweeney.
You mean low average hitting, massive strikeout producing Chris Young.
You mean underachieving, hasn't put together a good season yet Gio Gonzalez
You mean end of the rotation, pitches in the easiest park in the majors, got us an ace in return Clayton Richard
What does Swisher have to do with this list?
isn't this the same criticism Mr Rogers made when the Sox traded supposed future star Brandon McCarthy to Texas for John Danks?
"Wells(67-99 4.70 ERA) and Fogg(62-69 5.00 ERA) for Ritchie? Not exactly Brock for Broglio.
With the possible exception of Gonzalez, if his shoulder and elbow hold up, not one player you mentioned will have a memorable career.
As a GM whose boss won't allow him to deal with certain agents or set the market for free agents, KW does a solid job."
Nobody said any of these guys are HOF material, although Swisher and Young did make the All-Star team this year. The point is they are a lot better than the people we got in return.
Wells and Fogg were serviceable 4th and 5th starters for 7-8 years. Ritchie was out of baseball after the year of the trade.
Young is a 30 homer guy who plays a nice centerfield.
Sweeney, although absolutely no power, was hitting over .300 before his injury.
For a definition of a good GM, see what Rueben Amaro did for the Phillies in getting Houston to pay $11 million of Oswalt's salary. No way in hell Trader Kenny would have come close to making such a deal.
That's one side, now the other:
Wells and Fogg for Ritchie
Swisher twice (both coming and going)
Ryan Sweeney
Chris Young
Gio Gonzales
Clayton Richard
----
Wells(67-99 4.70 ERA) and Fogg(62-69 5.00 ERA) for Ritchie? Not exactly Brock for Broglio.
With the possible exception of Gonzalez, if his shoulder and elbow hold up, not one player you mentioned will have a memorable career.
As a GM whose boss won't allow him to deal with certain agents or set the market for free agents, KW does a solid job.
Phil, if Hudson fails are you going to write an apology piece? We're still waiting for the one on Joe Valentine, Daniel Cortes, Tyler Lumsden, Brandon McCarthy, Fautino De Los Santos, Aaron Poreda and John Ely. All players you thought to be too valuable to trade, but ended up sucking.
That's one side, now the other:
Wells and Fogg for Ritchie
Swisher twice (both coming and going)
Ryan Sweeney
Chris Young
Gio Gonzales
Clayton Richard
Phil, do you know anything about baseball at all? Daniel Hudson is a middle-rotation pitcher at best. Jackson is still only 26 and has stuff - in the mold of players Cooper has already shown he can help (Floyd & Thornton). If they flip him for a big bat, fine. If they don't, they're still better than they were if they'd kept Hudson.
Phil on July 30, 2010 5:25 PM
wilbur woods shattered kneecap on July 30, 2010 5:11 PM
Ron on July 30, 2010 4:22 PM
jphat31 on July 30, 2010 4:19 PM
Phil, do your research. Jared Weaver was 11-2 when he was called up in 2006. He finished 5th in RoY voting. Hudson is no Weaver.
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W/L records are the single worst way to compare pitchers, you shouldn't be criticizing anyone
---
Said the loser.
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You really don't understand baseball.
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You've never dealt with a bottom line.
wilbur woods shattered kneecap on July 30, 2010 5:11 PM
Ron on July 30, 2010 4:22 PM
jphat31 on July 30, 2010 4:19 PM
Phil, do your research. Jared Weaver was 11-2 when he was called up in 2006. He finished 5th in RoY voting. Hudson is no Weaver.
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W/L records are the single worst way to compare pitchers, you shouldn't be criticizing anyone
---
Said the loser.
-------------------------------
You really don't understand baseball.
Ron on July 30, 2010 4:22 PM
jphat31 on July 30, 2010 4:19 PM
Phil, do your research. Jared Weaver was 11-2 when he was called up in 2006. He finished 5th in RoY voting. Hudson is no Weaver.
----------------------
W/L records are the single worst way to compare pitchers, you shouldn't be criticizing anyone
---
Said the loser.
To Don't Know Why-
you said you are a Cubs fan, you should be crying, not laughing......your team sucks....bunch of head cases
"As a cubs fan-Im laughing so hard my damn sides ache."
Why? Did you just get done watching the cubs play? And what happened to the notion that cub fans couldnt care less about Sox business? As screwed up as the cub organization is, no cub fan has the right to comment on ANYTHING the Sox do!
Phil, if Hudson fails are you going to write an apology piece? We're still waiting for the one on Joe Valentine, Daniel Cortes, Tyler Lumsden, Brandon McCarthy, Fautino De Los Santos, Aaron Poreda and John Ely. All players you thought to be too valuable to trade, but ended up sucking.
Kenny Williams knows what he's doing, the Cubs fans and supposed White Sox fans on this thread........well not so much.
Phil Rogers ripping a move by Kenny Williams. I'm shocked! Is this the same Phil Rogers who wrote that the other bsaeball general manager in this town "deserves" to be kept on? Is this the same Phil Rogers who ripped the Danks for McCarthy trade? Is this the same Phil Rogers who ripped the Pierre for Ely trade? Or the Jeremy Reed for Freddy Garcia trade? Or the Carlos Quintin trade? Gee, i think i see a trend here!
The Alomar brothers not available?
But this story reminds of the Peanuts cartoon - where Lucy, for the umpteenth time, promises Charlie Brown she won't move the football just as he's getting ready to kick it.
I can here the bigwigs in Houston saying - Hell ya Kenny - make yer move, we'll be waiting for your call. Trust us!
Or Washington making the same promises.
As a Cubs fan - Im laughing so damn hard my sides ache.
This is getting monotonous. Year in and year out Kenny Williams gets fleeced in a deal at the trading deadline.
Phil, for once I agree with you.
jphat31 on July 30, 2010 4:19 PM
Phil, do your research. Jared Weaver was 11-2 when he was called up in 2006. He finished 5th in RoY voting. Hudson is no Weaver.
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W/L records are the single worst way to compare pitchers, you shouldn't be criticizing anyone.
Phil, do your research. Jared Weaver was 11-2 when he was called up in 2006. He finished 5th in RoY voting. Hudson is no Weaver.
Berkman is going to the Yanks.
Take him off the board for Sox options.
And not only that, but it gives the Sox leverage to aquire a big time hitter in the future. Lets face it, our system is one of the worst in baseball, but we still have a great crop of young arms that have had good sucess at this level. Teams want guys who are closer to sure things, and I'd say Floyd, Danks, and Jackson have all shown they are real good pithcers with high celings. I just never saw the big deal with Hudson at all. I would now rather have Berkman or Hape then Dunn, because we dont have a lot of talent in the farm and I would prefer to keep as much as possable. Berkam would be a better fit then Dunn because hes more versitile and can bat both ways and play better defence if need be, and hes been in many more big games. Jackson and Berkman make this team so much better than just Dunn.
why doesn't everyone just shut up until all the information is in?
KW is not the idiot some want to label him.
Let's see where we are at once the trading deadline has expired.
Phil obviously hasnt watched Hudson pitch. He has average stuff, and the only way he will be able to survive in this league is to be able to throw it anywhere he wants, and he hasnt showed he can do that. From what I saw he has a very average fastball, and a nice changeup. He hasnt proven he can get anything else over the plate. Edwin is a guy with 30 times more potential who has done it here at the big league level. The difference between Edwin and Daniel is that if they both reach there highest potential, Edwin is a #1 or #2 starter and Hudson is a #3 or #4, if that. This move gives the Sox one of the best young rotations in the game for the next 5-7 years. Don Cooper works wonders with high potential young guys like he did with Floyd and Danks, and this guy is right up there potential wise. All 3 are in there mid 20's, and all 3 are good right now, with room to get much better still.
All of the domino's will change direction if A-Rod fails a drug test today, MLB won't announce anything until until all hurdles are cleared with MLBPA but it will change the entire trading landscape in the next 24 hours. The player, team and league may not want to say anything yet, but there are people who don't like him that will........
I'm not a Sox fan, yet, I will say, EDWIN JACKSON SUCKS!!! hahahaha. Kenny Williams, way to dump a prospect for junk, the no hitter was biggest fluke in MLB history, lmao. You took the bait, moron.