A few thoughts on Notre Dame expansion talk, after Irish athletic director Jack Swarbrick comments Tuesday that although the school's strong preference is to remain independent, "seismic" changes brought on by Big Ten or Pac-10 expansion could "force" its move into a league.
A source within the Big Ten told the Tribune last month that given what transpired in 2003, when Notre Dame all but accepted an invitation to join the Big Ten before pulling back, "the only way they will be offered is if they first accept. The Big Ten went down that road and got burned. Fool me once, fool me twice."
In other words, the Big Ten will not court Notre Dame. The Irish would have to do the romancing. Or at least set up the first date.
That source also said that some Big Ten presidents would have trouble
admitting Notre Dame because it is not a member of the Association of
American Universities, a consortium of 62 leading research institutions
in the United States and Canada.
Every Big Ten school is a member, as are expansion candidates Rutgers, Pittsburgh and Missouri.
Then again, Dartmouth is a member of the Ivy League and not the AAU. Membership is reflective of the school's emphasis on research, not overall quality.
Even if a few Big Ten academicians were to be troubled, there is no way they could stop Notre Dame's move into the league. Given geography, name recognition, tradition, TV potential (Notre Dame could buy out its NBC deal) and academic quality, Notre Dame would be a superb fit.
Every Big Ten school is a member, as are expansion candidates Rutgers, Pittsburgh and Missouri.
Then again, Dartmouth is a member of the Ivy League and not the AAU. Membership is reflective of the school's emphasis on research, not overall quality.
Even if a few Big Ten academicians were to be troubled, there is no way they could stop Notre Dame's move into the league. Given geography, name recognition, tradition, TV potential (Notre Dame could buy out its NBC deal) and academic quality, Notre Dame would be a superb fit.
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AAU membership? Half the schools in the AAU (Nebraska, Missouri, Florida) are academic toilets and everyone knows it.
"ND needs the Big Ten more than the Big Ten needs ND."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. I suppose that was the case when ND rejected the Big 10 a few years ago as well.
This article considerably overrates the academic quality of the Big 10. The fact is that Notre Dame, academically, is ranked significantly higher than every Big 10 institution, with the exception of Northwestern. Notre Dame and Northwestern are ranked as two of the top 20 schools academically in the nation. Northwestern aside, no Big 10 school is really even close (though Michigan has outstanding grad school programs, but it's undergrad is weak.)
Don't worry Dave, they are working on a cure for that. Hopefully one of the research uni's will help you out!!
Re: Me
I live me life as an openly gay man and football is not what life is about. Get over yourselves.
RE: Rutgers
Dear Sean -
Not one Big 10 fan wants Rutgers, except maybe some folks in Penn who don't want to travel so far.
PLEASE KEEP THEM.
Sincerely,
The entire Big 10.
"Notre Dame vs. Pittsburgh, Rutgers, or Missouri? It's obvious who most people would want to join the Big 10."
No one. We do NOT want any expansion. A little extra money isn't worth it. None of these schools are worthy of the Big 10, not even stuck up pr*cks from ND.
If we want more revenue, we'll add another game to the schedule.
If we want FB games in November, we'll schedule them.
Why is everyone so hung up on the AAU? Membership is not exclusive. Irvine, Buffalo, Nebraska, Kansas, Stoneybrook...all members. Fine schools, for sure, but not elite.
Neither Notre Dame nor Missouri are research powerhouses. I wouldn't classify Rutgers that way either.
You do realize that Dartmouth is not even remotely in the same universe as most of the other Ivies right?
Also, "academicians" won't decide on expansion... the university presidents will. And they care about being a member of the AAU, and the prestige and funding that comes along with it.
Conference expansion is stupid. We need a playoff. Not a bunch of super conferences. I hate college football.
Umm, I believe that's what they said Jeff.
Notre Lame would have to ask nicely, with hat in hand, if they could please join.
The Big Ten (rightfully) will not ask them to join again. And why should they? I mean, we're talking about millions of dollars in revenue sharing. Schools should be beating the Big Ten's door down.
Notre Lame needs the Big Ten more then the Big Ten needs NL.
If Notre Dame wanted to join the Big 10, they'd be in the Big 10. No way does the Big 10 say no if Notre Dame wants to join a conference. I don't believe Notre Dame has to court the Big 10
Notre Dame vs. Pittsburgh, Rutgers, or Missouri? It's obvious who most people would want to join the Big 10
ND already has a conference, if they want to play football in it, the Big East. Much of their fan base is in this area anyway. They don't need to kiss the Big Tens butt.
Weasel - still upset that ND wouldn't let you in?
The Big Ten could add Nebraska without really disturbing the Big 12, with powers Texas and Oklahoma remaining, Notre Dame (UGH!), Pitt and Syracuse or Rutgers.
The big ten is the doormat
Syracuse & Rutgers are not, in my opinion, good matches for the Big Ten. If the Big Ten is into big travel, then Boston College & Stanford would be better choices. But these are student athletes, not professionals, and conference rivals should make geographic sense. I think that we can all agree that the Midwest only extends east to central Pennsylvania, south to Nashville & west to Big 12 country.
Another poster suggested that Vanderbilt University would be a good choice for Big Ten membership if the Big Ten expands to 16 teams. I agree. Vanderbilt's position in the SEC is similiar to Cornell University's stature in the Ivy League--both are viewed by their conference members as the odd stepchild of their respective leagues.
The same poster suggested Texas & Texas A&M for Big Ten membership in a 16 team conference. I also agree except that if the Texas schools join, then the Big Ten won't mess with the SEC as several other Big 12 schools will be on the market.
If the Pac-10 expansion does not disrupt the Big 12 Conference (by taking BYU & Utah, for example), then the Big Ten will settle on a fourteen football team membership. After securing the Notre Dame deal for Big Ten membership, Pitt & Missouri will be added unless the Big 12 makes a bold move to retain Missouri in which case Cornell University of the Ivy League should be considered.
Big Ten should expand to 16 teams, taking teams that are 1) members of the AAU, 2) ranked in USN & WR no lower than 71 - ranking of the lowest Big 10 schools, 3) able to bring another media market, 4) a BCS school, 5) able to field quality basketball and football teams & have top level facilities. I suggest TX, TX A&M, Vanderbilt, Syracuse and Rutgers.
If the Pac 10 expansion disrupts the Big 12 conference by luring away the University of Colorado, then Texas & Texas A&M will be politically able to consider Big Ten membership as the 13th & 14th teams. Missouri & Pitt will follow to create a 16 team super megaconference. Rutgers is a poor match for the Big Ten, while Cornell University--a great match--is being overlooked.
Dude, nice comments about Pitt. I do know about Pitt's past history with the Big 10, and, after Notre Dame, Pitt would be a perfect fit, except for that t.v.$$$ thing. Big 10 allready has Pa.. Glad to see someone that likes the Big 10 football. Your basketball would be more than welcome, you would fit in cozy, don't give up, the Big 10 people are big on the "geographical" fit. If it was up to me, I'd go 14, and invite N.D., Pitt and Missouri. The ACC would be a good fit for you, your program has been in the tournament, what 10 times in a row, you're a known national power for years, and your football seems to be back on track. Thing is, none of know what they'll do, it's Rutgers today, could be someone else tomorrow. Ya, it's all about the money, but, I don't like the Rutgers move either, they just don't fit. Good luck, you'll find a spot somewhere. O-H-I-O
Notre Dame will, however, be the twelth member of the Big Ten Conference despite its unattractiveness for helping secure research grants. Notre Dame's location, athletics, academics & national audience will suffice. I do not believe that the Big Ten should charge Notre Dame for admission to the conference. Once the Notre Dame deal is solidified, then the real issue for the Big Ten focuses on future expansion beyond twelve teams. Should the Big Ten remain at 12 teams or expand to 14 or 16 teams? The answer is not necessarily in the hands of the Big Ten Conference as much will depend upon the actions of the Pac-10 & its expansion to twelve teams.
Big 10 fans, don't bash me!! I'm a die hard Pitt fan, and for months I've been hoping for an invitation for Pitt. In the 40's 50's and 60's Pitt played 4,5, or 6 Big 10 teams a year, and Notre Dame. Did you also know, Pitt has been to 3 Rose Bowls, winning one?? Anyhow, I love Big 10 football, and would be sorry to lose the Big East basketball, but, geographically, after Notre Dame, Pitt is allready in the footprint. Now, I know it's all about money, but otherwise a perfect fit. Now, I'm reading all about Rutgers and again Notre Dame, and the money again. I'm now staring to re think things, if they don't want us, there are now sources saying, that several Big East teams will be going to the ACC, including Pitt, if the Big 10 offer doesn't come. I think I might like that better. I love the big 10, much better than the acc in football, but, the acc would be an upgrade to the scattered geography of the big east. And the basketball would just be a nice lateral move with different rivals. So, I say to you Big 10, go ahead and take Rutgers, better be careful what you wish for. Go ahead and get that NYC market, and get that extra money, you don't want Pitt, maybe afterall, Pitt doesn't want you either.
Notre Dame needs the Big Ten more than the Big Ten "needs" Notre Dame. The truly big bucks are research grants which are often measured in the hundreds of millions, even billions, of dollars. Cornell & Texas are the best matches for the Big Ten. Missouri & Pitt deserve strong consideration as well. Notre Dame matches up well in athletics & academics with the current Big Ten members. In terms of athletic marketing, Notre dame is still the national champion & can deliver the lucrative Northeastern U.S. TV market. But, if Notre Dame persists with its overblown sense of self importance, then let it continue to play Army & Navy & any other opponent available after the creation of the superconferences of 12 to 16 teams--none of which will have any available open dates to play Notre Dame. Again the truly big money for research universities is in research grants--which is Notre Dame's weakness. Even Michigan State just received a billion dollar research grant.
Yep, the most important criteria for a university's athletic programs is how much the school spends on research and membership in the Association of American Universities, a consortium of 62 leading research institutions in the United States and Canada. Maybe the Big Ten can woo McGill University or the Uniniversity of Toronto, both of them football powerhouses.
Go back through and there's a long history of ND & the Big ten saying 'no' to each other. To only look at last time is short-sighted. If they get to the point of saying 'yes' at the same time, both parties should be relieved it's finally over.
It's like the couple in the TV show that everyone knows belong together but they always just miss. Eventually we all get tired of it. Just get in bed already!
Ye$....the Big 10 (or is it 11?) would kill to get the like$ of Notre Dame. Me think$ there are lot$ of reason$ why the Iri$h think it'$ not a good idea....$tarting with cold, hard ca$h.
I just don't see nd in the big ten. They are simply not a research school, spending about a fifth of the average conference school
A million LOLs to your source. I like that the Big Ten's big targets are weak schools like Rutgers, Pitt & Missouri that would be 1/100000th the attention that Notre Dame would...yet the Big Ten wants to be romanced. Please.
As a UConn & Big East fan, I am BEGGING the Big Ten to take Rutgers. You want a middling school in Jersey that thinks it owns New York...be my quest. I can't stand Rutgers. It's not even because they're a rival, it's because they think they actually matter because they won one ESPN Thursday Night game four years ago.
BS.
The Big ten would kill to have ND.
All that matters to the Big ten is "traveling well", getting undeserved bowl bids, and making money. Nobody does any of those things as well as Notre Dame does.
"Every Big Ten school is a member, as our expansion candidates Rutgers, Pittsburgh and Missouri."
Hey Teddy,
Any openings at the Trib for people who know the difference between 'are' and 'our'? I could use some extra money.
Well, while Notre Dame wouldn't add much in terms of talent to the Big Ten football pool, at least Indiana might not finish last every year if the Irish were the new doormat.