The Cubs don't expect a last-minute settlement with Ryan Theriot before his arbitration hearing and are ready to go to battle with their starting shortstop.
Theriot asked for $3.4 million and the Cubs filed at $2.6 million. Hearings are scheduled for the next two weeks in St. Petersburg, Fla., and there has been no recent negotiating between the two sides.
"I haven't spoken to his people for a while," general manager Jim Hendry said Tuesday at Wrigley Field. "There's always a chance (for a settlement) until it's final. But I can't say I'm optimistic, either. We're already settled with the other seven (arbitration-eligible players). So if the situation ends up going to a hearing, then that's OK, too.
"Everbody has a right to (a hearing). It won't affect, obviously, the way we feel about him or the way he plays."
The hearing date has not been announced. Hendry will argue the case for the Cubs if it goes to a hearing.
The last Cubs player to go to a hearing was Mark Grace, who won his case in 1993. Carlos Zambrano got as far as the hotel for his arbitration hearing in 2007 before it was settled at the last minute.
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Are the cubs standing tough on Theriot because they don't want to pay him as a ss when they may have to move him for castro?
Sullivan,
Mark Grace LOST his arbitration case. The Cubs won.
Just from what I remember reading Doug, it sounds like the Cubs are dead set on $2.6 mil, final offer, no more, no way, no how. Could that have been wrong? Sure.
And you're right Rob, Felipe Lopez is the better player. In fact he would have made a whole lot of sense for the Cubs last year when they went on that ill-advised kick of signing every lefty on the planet. Except they didn't sign any of the ones that actually fit into the team, which automatically ruled him out.
Why do we think he is worth more.
He is a good hustle player but his average is not great.
His range on defense is average AT BEST.
His arm is maybe average.
I like him but he is not worth more in this market.
Look a Felipe Lopez and wait to see what he gets.
Felipe is a better hitter and better defensively.
Why do we assume that it's Hendry who will not budge from his offer? Maybe it's Theriot who is not wanting to come down from his 3.4 mil demand? Maybe the Cubs are convinced that Theriot is worth no more than 3 mil and they aren't willing to go any higher. And maybe Theriot thinks he is worth every penny of that 3.4 mil and won't go much lower. Truth is, we don't know. That's why they have arbitration.
And let me ask again, why suddenly do you want Hendry to cave in and give the player what he wants? Isn't that the same complaint you have about Hendry in the case of Soriano, Bradley, Fukudome, Dempster, and Zambrano? You do realize too that if Hendry just gives Theriot what he wants that every player who gets arbitration under Hendry will expect the same treatment? That would put Hendry and the Cubs in a much worse negotiating position.
Thanks Jay, I'll stay skeptically optimistic on Castro then. Hard to get overjoyed after all the past top prospect flops the Cubs have had.
As for Theriot, it just seems odd to me that Hendry won't budge at all on the gap. If Theriot thinks he's worth $3.4 mil, maybe offer him $2.6 mil plus some incentives. Try a two year deal with a middleground 2010 figure and a modest raise for 2011. Do something besides say "F you, this is it." I hear you on the positional comparison, but the fact is the Cubs are already on the hook for a minimum $2.6 mil. Risking at most an extra $800k on a guy who has been solid the last 3 years seems miniscule compared to $30 mil on a timebomb. If Theriot proves not to be worth the $3 mil+ at the end of 2010, non-tender him and let him see what the free agent market values him at.
To: Cubs in 2108.
In regard to Castro, This kid play the exact same way as Hanley Ramirez. The the top scouts says he's going to near or if not even better than Ramirez. They're calling him a 5 tool player. Saw him play he has the swagger and the skill. Remember he's only 19 yrs. old.
Experts predict. worst case scenerio, this kid becomes a .285 hitter with an avg. of 15-25 hrs a yr. Rbis, depends on where he hits most likely 2 or 6 so they're saying 75-100 Rbi's. 15-30 Sbs. with a OBP of .360-.380 Above avg. range and glove and remember that's worst case scenerio. They're saying he's the best raw talent since Ramirez and certain points of his game is compared to that of Alex Rodriguez. I know that's wishful thinking but how can you not. Let a kid with that talent develop.
Abt. Theriot. It's abt his marketability and how he compared to those that play his same position. who cares abt. Soriano and Bradley. and what they received. When the Cubs gave them the money. You can argue they were worth it and they received what the market at the time dictated what they were worth. Remember the position that a player plays will always also dictate what he makes. Put Theriot at OF position he'd be lucky if he can crack $800K annually based on his production. The Same way if you'd take say Matt Holliday. Based on his production if he were a first baseman he'd probably be valued at the $13 million range similar to that of Derrick Lee. But based on the fact that his production overall surpassed that of many of the other left fielders. He was able to get $17m + annually.
But for Theriot. What is not going to work for him is the signing the Cinn. Reds just made when they signed Orlando Cabrera 1 yr 3 mill
He's either going to have to agree to a settle for that or lose in arbitration ( If it goes to arbitration he either get 2.6 or 3.4 now where in between)
The cubs will argue, yeah he had a career high in Hr. and Rbis. But his overall Production had gone down. Avg. dropped by over 20 pts. from .307-.284. his OBP dropped from
,387-.343 his OPS dropped from .746-.712 his walk total dropped by 22 but strike out total went up almost 70 percent from 58So to 93 which is awfully high for a number 1 or 2 hitter and all this was done while getting a career high in AB over 600.
Then when you compare him to Cabrera a peer at SS. they both had the same avg. Theriot had a better OBP, but Cabrerra also hit 48 extra base hits compared to 32 of Theriot (he's a singles hitter). And Cabrera had 26 more Rbi's and 22 less strkie outs and the OPS. were very similar. and one top of all that. There's no question that Cabrera is the better defender and they both bat in the same place in the lineup.
I like Theriot. But unless they come to an agreement before their hearing. I think he's going to lose in arbitration. The Market itself dictates, he's not worth $3.4 million when there are players more valuable and more productive that are making less.
Player A- .288, 167h, 57bb, 67k 23 sb, 15e
Player B- .285, 159h, 50bb, 80k, 22sb, 6e
A is Theriot. B is Sandberg.
B made $3.25m 13 years ago, played 135 games with a .264, 12 hr, and 64 RBI
To Doug and mtk.
Very well said.
So you idiots want to have it both ways? Hendry overpaying for Soriano and Bradley is bad, but Hendry should overpay for Theriot? If anything, I'd think that you would be glad that Hendry is now taking a stand and not just writing in what ever number the player wants. Just goes to prove that you would be anti-Hendry no matter what he does.
Anyway, no GM can just say well I gave so-and-so a lot of money so I should give the players who make less money the raises that they want. No team works that way and if that's how you expect the Cubs and Jim Hendry to work then you know very little about the business of sports!
@cubs in 2108
Ummm, that's because Grabow was a FREE AGENT and was open to offers from other teams, not arbitration eligible. Big difference. Besides, it's about priorities, you sign a lefty who pitched well out of the pen and can be a big asset to your team long before you sign a dime-a-dozen utility player.
Check the clips and reviews on his play here.
http://prospectinsider.com/view/afl-video:-joe-dunigan,-starlin-castro/
Also, can anyone explain to me where all this Starlin Castro hype is coming from? Yeah he hit .376 in 101 ABs in the AFL (with all of 3 walks and a ridiculous .437 BABIP), but he only had 7 extra base hits and was 75% in stealing bases. Offensively he doesn't seem all that different than Theriot. Maybe Castro's defense is better, though I saw he made 39 errors during the regular minor league season.
Has anyone actually seen him play? What am I missing?
His numbers went down last season, getting on base considerably less than the season before. His defense improved slightly. He is a horrid baserunner.
He is a somewhat useful player at a low price. A decent price is his main value to the team. If he wins arbitration, his value diminishes and will probably be traded to make room for Castro be the start of the 2011 season.
Funny how the Cubs rushed to overpay Grabow, and now they won't even try to find a compromise with their starting shortstop on an $800k gap. Way to have your priorities straight Jim.
Plays hard but lacks the arm and range of a big league shortstop. Still think they should move Castro to 2nd, and plan on Hak-Ju Lee at shortstop.
If the Cubs will pay $10m to Bradley and $18m to Soriano, how is giving another $800k to Theriot a big deal???